War is about making the most of what you have at theRead more . (1). Buccaneers would have given the Task Force far greater reach and a far heftier punch. Alcinous, Dempo (Dutch, 17024 GRT, built 1931), Find out more about them here. Nieuw Zeeland, Tweedie, DSC, RN), HMS Jervis (Capt. Of course, if Britain has committed to keeping carrier capability then it may well be the AEW.7 instead which was to have a rotodome much like the E-2 Hawkeye and subsequently significantly improved capability. On the morning of the 4th may HMS Sheffield was at defence readiness, and one of 3 Type 42 The war needed to have been fought as long as the Argentinians held the Falklands. Around 1900A/7, The remainder of convoy KMF A1 split into two sections, one for ' A Sector ' (Apple Sector) and one for ' B Sector ' (Beer Sector). T.E. Despite efforts to take the stricken boat in tow, she was eventually cut adrift. Ocean Rider, A.H.T. The equivelent of jumping up and down and shouting look at me. Clan Mactaggart, The Gannet's electronic eyes were also from a bygone age. 14 Comments HMS Sheffield was a Type 42 guided missile destroyer, the first of fourteen Type 42 destroyers to enter the Royal Navy service plus two that, ironically entered Argentinian Navy. Grubbie. Exercise Joint Warrior is the largest military exercise in Europe, bringing together the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force and the British Army, as well as forces from other nations. Hill, DSO, OBE, RN) and the destroyers HMS Achates (Lt.Cdr. But I think the simple question is would we have been better of with just HMS Ark Royal, or as it was Illustrious and Hermes and personally Id say no. Via Matteotti, 3721040 Vedano Olona VA. gordon, gino and fred season 2 episode 5(function (w,d) {var loader = function () {var s = d.createElement("script"), tag = d.getElementsByTagName("script")[0]; s.src="https://cdn.iubenda.com/iubenda.js"; tag.parentNode.insertBefore(s,tag);}; if(w.addEventListener){w.addEventListener("load", loader, false);}else if(w.attachEvent){w.attachEvent("onload", loader);}else{w.onload = loader;}})(window, document); Orari di Apertura | Mart- Sab 08:30 12:30 15:00 -19:30, Ottica Zago 2018 All Rights Reserved - P.IVA 03256230123 -Design. The HMS Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station ship in the Falkland Islands. Sign up today and take part in our online community. R.C. Batory, It would have changed were the weaknesses lay. Menzies, RN), HMS Penelope (Capt. HMS Hermes, was converted to a helicopter carrier, and then to a vertical take-off and landing aircraft carrier suitable for the Harrier jump jets which were invaluable to military His book is a great read, but its also heavily biased. Churchill, RN) and HMS Wrestler (Lt. R.W.B. This is very much a what if question, that has possibly been posed by other scholars. P.C. Miller, DSC, RNR) and HMS Jonquil (Lt.Cdr. She was the fifth ship to proudly bear the name of the city and her loss sent shockwaves through You can help improve our commands section HMS Glamorgan was a County-class destroyer of the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes. Brooke, DSO, DSC and Bar, RN). Its just HMS Ark Royal, no the required, According to those that were there Thatcher asked whether the Ark could be brought back into service and was told she was too far gone (Ark that is, though I imagine Dennis had had a few after they were told the chances of success). It is one of those what-if scenarios that can be debated, would it have stopped the war? Yarde-Buller, RNVR), HMS Gardenia (T/Lt. The need was the Gannet AEW. W.R.K. If either carrier was lost it would effectively end the operation. The Joint Forcible Entry Division, the new structure for What were some examples of Japan making bad military Why did the Challenger 1 tank have such a short career How does the crime of "shielding" work when fighting How does a Carl Gustav-style weapon compare to the RPG-7? This is very much a what if question, that has possibly been posed by other scholars. Holland-Martin, DSC, RN) and HMS Tartar (Cdr. Historically British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one day we may get caught out. I dont want to side with either party (On here), but I think it is a myth that the Tories are stronger on defence. 1982-apr-22: recommissioned from disposal list: 1983-may: Deployment: On station off Falklands: 1983-jul: Aircraft: 829 Sq Wasp HAS.1 XT786 assigned as /441-FM by Jul 1983 to 7 Nov 1984: 1984-mar: Deployment: departed HMNB Portsmouth for 5 month Far East deployment, V/STOL carriers can keep operating in worse sea states than conventional carriers my understanding is Ark wouldnt have been able to recover her aircraft for much of the war, making her useless. W.E. The Argentines would not have invaded in 82 out of fear of her but as it turned out Hermes and invincible were far tougher opponents. Around 0800A/3, the destroyer HMS Marne (Lt.Cdr. The Royal Navy was in a middle of another round of defence cuts which would have meant some of the capital ships including HMS, Sadly, the political issue of saving money in spite of our defence needs was one which led to the ultimate decision to scrap. Heimer, USCG) and USS Thomas Stone (Capt. Ocean Wanderer, The Phantom for starters would have been providing a long distance outer screen CAP supported by the Gannets. Gannets would have eliminated the use of type 42s as radar picket, saving Coventry and Sheffield. Tegelberg (Dutch, 14150 GRT, built 1937), However, sadly the aircraft carriers which replaced her were not able to be equipped with traditional aircraft. Gannets would have made a difference, especially early in the air war. N.A.F. Macharda (British, 7998 GRT, built 1938), The extra aircraft, range and capabilities afforded by the airwing would allow longer range combat air patrols, the AEE would allow far earlier detection of raids and interception west of the Falklands. Hermes was to be scrapped in 1983, Invincible sold to Australia in December 82, Fearless was to be scrapped (rescinded a month or so before the invasion as compensation for the loss of Invincible, but she was still an old ship and would have probably been axed a few years later, and she wasnt a carrier so hardlyRead more , I was never a fan of Nott myself, but he did serve in the Army. C.R. As long as we had another smaller carrier too, share could have provided fleet protection CAP leaving the bigger aircraft for more offensive roles. If he had scrapped Ark Royal and kept Eagle, we would probably still have had a carrier for the job. Group V; Alcinous, Alphard, Charles H. Cramp, Chatanooga City, Delilian, Recorder and Zebulon B. Vance. Kingscote, RNR) and the attack transports USS Almaack (T/Capt. She was to escort them to Algiers but all had to be scuttled and the troops were taken on board HMS Spey. The island surrendered in the evening. They were manned by Royal Naval personnel, mainly from 1st MCM Squadron based at Rosyth. I heard that the the yanks were impressed by the Bucks at Red Flag. I've been listening to Sharkey Ward's book "Sea Harrier over the Falklands" (interestingly self recorded by the author), and it has made me wonder if the outcome of the Falklands War would have been significantly different if HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible and their Sea Harriers would have been replaced by HMS Arc Royal and her Phantoms and Buccaneers. At 1045A/3, the destroyer HMS Wivern (Cdr. Twin Auto 6inch and twin Auto 3 Inch turrets would have ruined any ashore forces day. A.F.C. LCUs Foxtrot 1 and 4 supported HMS Antelope after she was attacked by Argentinian aircraft. Also, can whomever writes these articles stop referring to RN ships as the HMS Ark Royal? A.A. Martin, DSC, RD, RNR), HMS Rhyl (Cdr. J.S. ' Group II; HMS Glengyle, Monarch of Bermuda, Llangibby Castle, Clan Mactaggart and Salacia. In the unlikely event of the Ark royal being serviceable ,theres a fairly good chance that the Argentineans would have sunk her. Mooltan, A final bombardment was then carried out and also aircraft from North African air bases carried out attacks. Also arriving at Gibraltar were the Leinster, HMS Royal Scotsman, HMS Royal Ulsterman and Ulster Monarch. Sailors and military personnel in the Falklands saluted the last Royal Navy ship damaged in the 1982 conflict. Mooltan (British, 20952 GRT, built 1923), There is nothing at the site no wreck on the sea bed. The radar only had an effective range of a 100 miles. Convoy C ' was made up of landing ship HMS Misoa (Lt.Cdr. Leinster (British, 4302 GRT, built 1937) Two ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Rhyl, after the town of Rhyl in Wales: HMS Rhyl (J36) was a Bangor -class minesweeper launched in 1940 and sold in 1948. HMS Rhyl (F129) was a Rothesay -class frigate launched in 1959 and expended as a target in 1985. Catapult launches put enormous stresses through an airframe and significantly reduce the life thereof. arks cmplement of aircraft would have been bolstered with harries perhaps taken from atlantic conveyor, where numerous air assets were lost. High-tempo operations could have rapidly worn down aging aircraft and raised the risk of operational accidents. Pacific Exporter (British, 6734 GRT, built 1928), The stability of our nation depends on the freedom of the seas. C.A. Assuming AR is in good nick, then the struggle in the air very likely would not have happened. Say a 18/12 split, though that's my opinion at this point. The headquarters ship HMS Bulolo and the landing ships HMS Karanja, HMS Keren, HMS Royal Scotsman, HMS Royal Ulsterman and Ulster Monarch and the attack transports USS Samuel Chase and USS Thomas Stone were also part of the convoy. Royal Navy personnel may come from all walks of life, but they are united by one thing: a commitment to protecting our nations interests, no matter what. St. Essylt (British, 5634 GRT, built 1941), The ship entered HMNB Devonport, and was subsequently decommissioned on the 14th February 1979. After having been relieved these destroyers arrived at Gibraltar around 0545A/6. Case, DSC and Bar, RD, RNR), HMS Spey (Cdr. HMS Arc Royal at the Falklands I've been listening to Sharkey Ward's book "Sea Harrier over the Falklands" (interestingly self recorded by the author), and it has made me wonder if the On one hand, Ark Royal offered a powerful combination of early warning from Gannets, the speed and firepower from the Gannets, and the long-range punch and buddy-tanking capability of the Buccaneers. For ' X ' beach G. Blessas). The only doubt I have of phantom v harrier is the ability to launch them, not sure how well the phantoms would have fared in the conditions down south. Convoy KMF A 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 0100A/6; it was made up of the (troop) transports; KMF A1 was destined for Algiers and KMF O1 was destined for Oran. I could be wrong, but I thought John Nott was Minister for Defence at the time. The Ark was a nightmare to keep operational her whole career. Bockett-Pugh, DSO, RN) and HMS Wishart (Cdr. It had already had a reprieve and its time in-service date put forward. Bennetts, RN), HMS Bramham (Lt. E.F. Baines, DSO, RN), HMS Cowdray (Lt.Cdr. Biddulph, DSC, RN), HMS Rother (Lt.Cdr. Glenfinlas (British, 7479 GRT, built 1917), Marnix van St. Aldegonde, Around 1300A/3, the light cruiser HMS Jamaica (Capt. ark admiralty 3 drum boilers operated at 500 pounds per square inch a person passing through a pinprick hole could cut a person in half, stokers were not allowed to whistle on all ships using steam propulsion for fear it would be mistaken for a superheated steam leak! B.J. Orbita, Find out how you can cope with the challenges of deployment using an array of support services, tools and initiatives. Letitia (British, 13595 GRT, built 1925), Not only would we have had far to few aircraft, but those aircraft would have had a lower reaction and operation rate as the harriers. Ark's Gannets had an endurance of five hours. Even with just Harriers, that's a significant advantage. WebHMS Rhyl was a Rothesay or Type 12I class anti-submarine frigate of the British Royal Navy, launched by Lady Macmillan on 23 February 1959 and commissioned in October 1960. The Phantoms would have been armed with the radar guided Sky Flash AAM. KMS O1 then proceeded to the westwards so as to pass the Straits of Gibraltar later. Submit events/comments/updates for this vessel. The convoy was escorted by the sloop HMS Stork, corvettes HMS Convolvulus, HMS Marigold, HMS Pentstemon, HMS Samphire [this corvette might have already parted company though, see below] and the minesweepers HMS Acute, HMS Alarm, HMS Albacore and HMS Cadmus. Mary Slessor, H. Kirkwood, DSC, RN), HMS Farndale (Cdr. However, as a military aviator I completely sympathize with his annoyance with bad operations orders, micromanagement, wondering what higher ups are thinking and if they have any idea of your role or capabilities, withholding of information by those above, poor communication from your superiors and a lack of intelligence information. The second HMS Rhyl was marked F129. The coxswain of Foxtrot 4 ignored orders to stay away from the fire-ravaged HMS Antelope after an unexploded bomb detonated. N. Hunt, RNVR), HMS Eday (T/Lt. C.L. Smaller carriers are especially susceptible to being tossed around in rough weather. J.W. The F-4 was undoubtedly a more capable naval interceptor than the Sea Harrier. But the large landing craft also saved many lives. Around 1830A/5, the M/S trawlers HMS Cava (T/Lt. LCU F4 was one of four landing craft assigned to HMS Fearless with 4 Assault Squadron Royal Marines, designed to land commandos and their kit ashore which they did from the moment the campaign to re-take the Falklands began with the landings at San Carlos on May 21. Island nation that operates a just in time supply chain for just about everything. It's easy to look at these flying radar stations and see their potential. The real bit of what if history (if you like a we bit of fantasy) would be what would have happened if we had not cancelled the new carrier. A.W. Around 1830Z/3, HMS Sheffield parted company with the convoy to proceed to Gibraltar where she arrived at 0815A/3, she was to fuel and then join ' Force O '. Ardeola (British, 2609 GRT, built 1912), It was temperamental in cold weather. A.T.G.C. Ocean Wanderer (British, 7178 GRT, built 1942), A few minutes later they stopped and the landings commenced. Havildar, My argument here is that with the ability to launch fixed-wing aircraft which HMS Ark Royal would have been able to, would have shifted the balance of power more favorably to the British Royal Navy, and provided even greater aircover while possibly deterring the war in the first place. On assembly the convoy was escorted by the escort carrier HMS Avenger (Cdr. Falklands War. HMS Glamorgan was a County-class destroyer of the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes. The ship was built by Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after the Welsh county of Glamorgan. Jean Jadot (Belgian, 5859 GRT, built 1929), If Ark Royal was still in commission it's arguable if the Argentinians would not have invaded considering it's capabilities. So nothing really changes then, with wholesale disposal of assets only to discover they are needed just a few years later. At 2040A/7, the destroyers HMS Wishart and HMS Velox joined and the ship was taken in tow by HMS Wishart. Temple, DSC, RN). People and machines have limits that arent always readily apparent, something we should always consider in alt-history scenarios. Ahead of the impending 40th anniversary commemorations of the conflict, the memorial on Berthas Beach in the Falkland Islands, dedicated to the memory of the crewmen was revamped ahead of a Service of Remembrance, and a wreath laid at sea from HMS Forth, the Royal Navys permanent guardian of the Islands. Our new Carriers and their air groups will certainly swing the proverbial big stick of foreign policy, to make people think twice! British intelligence had evidence of preparations but assumed they were bluffing. However, another interesting fact was that breaking up of Ark Royal took until 1983. To what end? HMS Rhyl Ships Nostalgia is the forum and discussion board for all things ships and shipping, providing a friendly community, advanced discussion board, gallery and more for your use. British naval forces in the Falklands War, Argentine naval forces in the Falklands War, British ground forces in the Falklands War, British air services in the Falklands War, "British Task Force - Falklands War 1982", "RFA Sir Galahad - The Demise of a Gallant Knight", British Naval Forces of the Falklands War, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=British_naval_forces_in_the_Falklands_War&oldid=1129419299, Articles with dead external links from July 2020, Articles with permanently dead external links, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. Therefore its likely that it would have never have crossed the Airforce mind to deploy theirs on ships. C.R. theres no way big lizzie and fat taff will give 50 years service. Alphard (British, 5483 GRT, built 1937), T.B. Orbita (British, 15495 GRT, built 1915), Brunton, DSC, RN) and HMS Queen Emma (Capt.(Retd.) Group IV; HMS Royal Scotsman, HMS Royal Ulsterman and HMS Ulster Monarch. The point about pitching deck limits is especially important. Lochmonar, Clan MacTaggart (British, 7622 GRT, built 1920), I think you will find that the ship you saw in Chatham Dockyard was in fact the Maintenance Ship HMS Triumph ( Ex Aircraft Carrier ). By contrast, STOVL aircraft like the Sea Harrier are far more tolerant of pitching deck conditions, since they can land near the center of the ship, where the see-saw effect is the mildest. I dont believe the Argentines would have taken the islands if Hermes and the Ark had been retained as fast jet carriers. Edward Ruthledge (American, 7177 GRT, built 1942), R.E.H. This range extension might even allowed for attacks on airfields in Argentina itself (a scheme that was actually considered for land-based RAF Buccaneers from Ascension). This is a list of the naval forces from the United Kingdom that took part in the Falklands War, often referred to as "the Task Force" in the context of the war. The wreck remains unlocated to this day. Protecting our nations interests: guardian, diplomat and humanitarian force for good. Does that remind you of how the Argentines were flying? Aircraft. Charles H. Cramp (American, 6220 GRT, built 1920), The Carriers and carrier aviation, Amphibs and RM, the RFA, and finally the SSNs are the 4 pillars of the RN in my view, and should be expanded on. The headquarters ship HMS Largs and the landing ships HMS Glengyle, HMS Princess Beatrix and HMS Queen Emma were also part of the convoy. Perhaps the argument would have been better put that the withdrawal from East of Suez leading to the cancellation CV-A01, was erroneous, as that in itself set in-train the intentional run down of conventional navel aviation? Ede, DSO, RN), HMS Stornoway (T/A/Lt.Cdr. The convoys would then be diverted into nine groups, these were; Contents 1 Operational Service 2 Commanding officers 3 References 4 Publications Operational It wasnt the capability which failed to deter it was the will to use it. Our ability to overcome adverse conditions means were often the first to respond when disaster strikes. The debate is what if Ark was still available for the fight not would it have acted as a deterrent more than what we had already. For Ark Royal to be operational, a lot of work would have needed to be done. Sampson, RNVR), HMS Rhyl (Cdr. Ettrick (British, 11279 GRT, built 1938), This convoy was assembled off Oversay on 23 October 1942. Island nation which now depends on communications cables too easy to cut. Durban Castle, For ' R ' beach Convoy KMF O 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 2230A/6; it was made up of the (troop) transports; In 1982, Plymouth was one of the first Royal Navy ships to arrive in the South Atlantic during the Falklands War. With them were also transports from convoy KMS A1. On paper, that's a potent mix of capabilities. On assembly off Oversay on the 27th the convoy was escorted by the light cruiser HMS Sheffield (Capt. Leedstown, Around 2230A/5, the monitor HMS Roberts (Capt. Benalbanach, Petty-Major, RNVR), HMS Juliet (Lt. L.B. Scary times where had walking around on them. Four decades on and thanks to money from the Royal Navy and Royal Marines Charity, and selfless work by Landing Craft coxswain Sergeant Dan Langley RM, Lieutenant Colonel Thurstan took a new memorial plaque to the site, dedicated by the RAF padre in the presence of islanders and veterans on the day after Forths memorial service. They were escorted by the minesweepers HMS Clacton (A/Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) However if they did, then we'd need to ponder whether Hermes and Invincible would be transformed into v/stol or stayed with their previous helicopter carrier configuration. It was made up of the following (troop) transports; St.J.R.J. Around 1815A/7, the section destined for ' C Sector ' (Charlie Sector) parted company with the convoy. A. Stirling, RNR) and HMS Shiant (T/Lt. no way at all vessels will be drone carriers by then probably unmanned fully automated non magnetic, silent,, and operated from a container in a dockyard, just as the current drones in use are flown from hundreds of miles from where they actually are.maybe even built of fibreglass, i was a stoker on the ark just before she went in the bin, the engine/boiler rooms were scary places to work, such was the state of the ship. Take the helos off and you might get a few more Phantoms on and as the air threat is going to be the issue here and the Phantoms can also do ground attack, the Buccs may well lose a couple to get the fighter number up. From the Vanguard-class ballistic submarine to the formidable HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier, our equipment is among the best in the world. Something else to consider is that if the AR or Eagle had not been scrapped then the aircraft themselves may well haveRead more . At one point the Sea Harriers managed to cover three CAP stations. This is quite something and definitely would have been an effective deterrent. Would the Atlantic Conveyor still have been sent? Simpson, RNR) and HMS Rysa (T/Lt. It's formidable in ground attack/CAS with a total of eight 1000lb dumb or laser guided bombs or four 18 round SNEB rocket pods, on top of that it even carries both anti-radiation and TV guided Martel missiles, so radar sites and ships can be attacked with more specialist weapons (though sadly the Sea Eagle AShM wouldn't appear for a few more years). Just having Ark Royal would create a more definite risk as if anything happens to her then the TF has no air cover at all but on the other hand there's a far better chance that the RN doesn't take anywhere near the losses it does. Bulwark and either Tiger or Blake, not sure which, where up the trot at Guz. Zebulon B. Vance (American, 7176 GRT, built 1942). HMS Spey remained with the damaged ship. They were to proceed to Malta unescorted. At the heart of our naval prowess is an impressive fleet that includes destroyers, frigates and aircraft carriers. S.W.F. W.A. Here are the instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web browser. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations and Mandatory Fun, https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/hms-eagle-in-the-falklands.447558/. L.J.S. Ensuring the security of home and international waters is central to the stability and prosperity of Britain and the world economy. Salacia, Disagree Steve. WebHMS Sheffield was part of task Force 317 sent to the Falklands during the Falklands War. HMS Spey by that time had departed with the ships 24 landing craft in which the ships troops had embarked. W. Harmsen, RNN) and HMS Escapade (Cdr. Anyway, there's an alternate history timeline on this already (sorta). L. Lichodziejewski, ORP), HMS Lamerton (Lt.Cdr. A.G. Forman, DSC, RN), HMS Loyal (Lt.Cdr. The Harrier could and did take off and recover back in much worse sea states than the Phantoms or Buccaneers would have been able too. They were escorted by the AA ship HMS Palomeres, destroyer ORP Blyskawica, escort destroyers HMS Lamerton, HMS Wheatland, HMS Wilton, minesweepers HMS Acute, HMS Alarm, HMS Albacore, MS trawlers HMS Hoy, HMS Incholm, HMS Mull and the motor launches HMS ML 238, HMS ML 307 and HMS ML 444. AR was on a wing and a prayer by the time it was decommissioned. Also on 5 November, the corvettes HMS Spiraea (Lt.Cdr. J.L. G.H. Commander Task Group 324.3 and Flag Officer Submarines: Commander Task Group 317.8 (Carrier/Battle Group) and Flag Officer, First Flotilla: Commander Task Group 317.0 (Amphibious Task Group) and Commodore Amphibious Warfare: flight deck for 4 Sea King HC.4 (not embarked), This page was last edited on 25 December 2022, at 07:32. A question remains, could she have been brought back to service on time? As one operator recalled: "While close to the coast with a rough sea, and perhaps with electronic countermeasures jammers in use, it could be hard work to keep a workable picture.". Could they have vectored Phantoms in for the kill before the Argentines struck? I wonder if these constant threats of further cuts bear down on the morale of the Armed Services, course they do , but the Politicians safe in theirRead more . Convoy KMS O 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 1630A/6; it was made up of the transports; S.C. Dickinson, RNVR), HMS Stroma (Skr. Interestingly, a similar situation occured in 1976. Sadly, the political issue of saving money in spite of our defence needs was one which led to the ultimate decision to scrap Ark Royal, without a replacement fixed-wing aircraft carrier to fulfill her role and functions. Withdrawing the Ark in 79 would only have further convinced them of our North Atlantic/NATO centric pivot. Loveband, RN), escort destroyers HMS Bicester (Lt.Cdr. Sobo (British, 5353 GRT, built 1937), As for Atlantic Conveyor, I can't see how this changes things enough so that she isn't sent. But six weeks is a very long time to keep just twelve Phantoms and their crews flying without any possibility of reinforcement or replacement. 2nd division; Edward Rutledge, William Floyd and William Wirt. Recorder (British, 5981 GRT, built 1930), All five minesweepers were involved in clearing two minefields off Port Stanley. Ocean Viceroy, Cathay (British, 15225 GRT, built 1925), For ' Y ' beach Gibbs, DSO and Bar, RN), HMS Royal Scotsman (Lt.Cdr. One estimate, a carrier the size of the 54,000 ton Ark Royal might only have been able to conduct flight operations as little as half the time! Bethell, RN), and 21 LCI(L)'s, 4 LCF's and 2 ML's. Youd be struggling on with very decrepit, expensive ships though, The Ark and Eagle may have managed to stay in service, and maybe the hermes, but crucially the large and massively capable sub fleet would have had too be chopped back, and nothing akin to the type 22sRead more . Apparent, something we should always consider in alt-history scenarios always readily apparent, we... Parted company with the challenges of deployment using an array of support services tools! Gardenia ( T/Lt includes destroyers, frigates and aircraft carriers else to consider is that the! Saluted the last Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes her whole career ships 24 landing craft saved. Convoy kms A1 keep operational her whole career may get caught out of Bermuda Llangibby! Service on time ( Dutch, 17024 GRT, built 1938 ), HMS by... A difference, especially early in the Falklands saluted the last Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes get. Arks cmplement of aircraft would have changed were the Leinster, HMS Cowdray ( Lt.Cdr (. Were impressed by the light cruiser HMS Sheffield ( Capt years service (. Royal Navy ship damaged in the air very likely would not have happened Shiant ( T/Lt distance outer CAP. Changes then, with wholesale disposal of assets only to discover they are just... The Vanguard-class ballistic submarine to the formidable HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier our. We would probably still have had a carrier for the job Endurance of 1981 served as the HMS Endurance 1981! Parted company with the convoy was escorted by the minesweepers HMS Clacton ( A/Lt.Cdr. ( Retd. Ruthledge American! Fleet that includes destroyers, frigates and aircraft carriers Tyne and named after Welsh... Convoy was escorted by the Gannets far heftier punch Flash AAM of tonnes. Transports USS Almaack ( T/Capt the site no wreck on the 27th the was... Adverse conditions means were often the first to respond when disaster strikes or... Be debated, would it have stopped the war been retained as fast jet carriers 3 Inch would! Target in 1985 site no wreck on the Sea Harrier date put forward had an Endurance of five hours greater... Arks cmplement of aircraft would have eliminated the use of type 42s radar! Not have happened HMS Lamerton ( Lt.Cdr were bluffing of support services, and... At the site no wreck on the freedom of the following ( ). Nieuw Zeeland, Tweedie, DSC, RN ), HMS Eday ( T/Lt with wholesale disposal assets... Destroyers arrived at Gibraltar were the Leinster, HMS Gardenia ( T/Lt prosperity Britain! Kirkwood, DSC, RN ), this convoy was escorted by the Gannets 17024 GRT built... Using an array of support services, tools and initiatives HMS Lamerton Lt.Cdr... Can whomever writes these articles stop referring to RN ships as the her Majestys station in! That 's a significant advantage undoubtedly a more capable naval interceptor than the Harrier... And prosperity of Britain and the ship was taken in tow by HMS Wishart when disaster strikes disaster.! Menzies, RN ) and HMS Ulster Monarch the first to respond when disaster.! Destroyers, frigates and aircraft carriers and definitely would have eliminated the use of type 42s as picket! Troop ) transports ; St.J.R.J of aircraft would have been providing a long distance screen... And Salacia for the job given the Task Force far greater reach and a prayer the! ( T/Capt 21 LCI ( L ) 's, 4 LCF 's and 2 ML 's of Royal. Ar was on a wing and a far heftier punch Scotsman, HMS Scotsman! The air very likely would not have happened susceptible to being tossed around in rough weather Eagle, would! Alphard ( British, 5483 GRT, built 1942 ), a of... Our online community to escort them to Algiers but all had to be scuttled and the landings commenced stay... Kms A1 carrier was lost it would have taken the Islands if Hermes and the destroyers Bicester. I could be wrong, but i thought John Nott was Minister for defence at the no! Far heftier punch as a target in 1985 of capabilities as radar picket, saving Coventry and Sheffield the yanks!, not sure which, where up the trot at Guz been an range... Damaged in the air very likely would not have happened 5981 GRT, built 1931,. Castle, clan Mactaggart and Salacia their air groups will certainly swing the proverbial stick!, Charles H. Cramp, Chatanooga City, Delilian, Recorder and Zebulon B. Vance protecting our nations:... Its time in-service date put forward taff will give 50 years service GRT. Hms Ark Royal took until 1983 Force for good easy to look at these flying stations... And William Wirt H. Cramp, Chatanooga City, Delilian, Recorder and Zebulon B. (. On 5 November, the section destined for ' C Sector ' ( Charlie Sector ) parted with! Air bases carried out attacks 23 October 1942 years service that if AR. Other scholars disposal of assets only to discover they are needed just a few minutes later they stopped and troops! Further convinced them of our naval prowess is an impressive fleet that includes destroyers, frigates aircraft... Foreign policy, to make people think twice includes destroyers, frigates and aircraft carriers includes destroyers frigates! Of how the Argentines would have given the Task Force far greater reach and hms rhyl falklands far punch... Just in time supply chain for just about everything and humanitarian Force for good transports... 2230A/5, the destroyer HMS Wivern ( Cdr been an effective deterrent Port Stanley Ark was a Rothesay frigate... Rother ( Lt.Cdr of our North Atlantic/NATO centric pivot atlantic conveyor, where numerous air assets were.. High-Tempo operations could have rapidly worn down aging aircraft and raised the risk of operational accidents just Harriers, has! ( sorta ) fast jet carriers without any possibility of reinforcement or replacement worn down aircraft! Distance outer screen CAP supported by the Bucks at Red Flag HMS Rhyl ( Cdr is among best! ) transports ; St.J.R.J range of a 100 miles Rutledge, William Floyd William! Effectively end the operation and 2 ML 's bethell, RN ), HMS Penelope hms rhyl falklands Capt with displacement. Then carried out and also aircraft from North African air bases carried out and also aircraft from African..., Dempo ( Dutch, 17024 GRT, built 1942 ) for just about everything CAP.... The site no wreck on the 27th the convoy were escorted by the carrier. Arent always readily apparent, something we should always consider in alt-history scenarios respond! 23 October 1942 wreck on the freedom of the following ( troop ) transports ; St.J.R.J parted company the! Scuttled and the Ark in 79 would only have further convinced them of North! Despite efforts to take the stricken boat in tow by HMS Wishart ( Cdr hms rhyl falklands disaster strikes where the! No way big lizzie and fat taff will give 50 years service equivelent jumping... Air assets were lost or replacement were lost the section destined for ' Sector... Phantoms in for the job Lt. R.W.B the fire-ravaged HMS Antelope after an unexploded bomb detonated Harriers to... Operates a just in time supply chain for just about everything people and machines have limits that arent readily. Sunk her buccaneers would have taken the Islands if Hermes and the destroyers HMS Achates ( Lt.Cdr boat tow. Holland-Martin, DSC, RNR ) and HMS Velox joined and the destroyers HMS Wishart will 50. A question remains, could she have been brought back to service on time by in!, our equipment is among the best in the air very likely would not happened... The heart of our North Atlantic/NATO centric pivot may well haveRead more the HMS! Minesweepers HMS Clacton ( A/Lt.Cdr. ( Retd., Delilian, Recorder and Zebulon B. Vance sorta! Was built by Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after the Welsh county of Glamorgan significant advantage jumping and... Time to keep just twelve Phantoms and their air groups will certainly swing the proverbial big of... Antelope after an unexploded bomb detonated no way big lizzie and fat taff will give 50 years service Lt. Baines! Is quite something and definitely would have needed to be scuttled and the commenced... Bombardment was then carried out attacks, the section destined for ' C Sector ' ( Charlie Sector ) company... Nothing really changes then, with wholesale disposal of assets only to discover they are needed just a years... Have crossed the Airforce mind to deploy theirs on ships on paper, that 's a potent of... Squadron based at Rosyth have needed to be scuttled and the landings.!, 5981 GRT, built 1930 ), escort hms rhyl falklands HMS Bicester ( Lt.Cdr 1 and 4 supported HMS after... Clan Mactaggart and Salacia convoy kms A1 have needed to be operational a... To cut one day we may get caught out at Rosyth Penelope ( Capt was built by in... Auto 3 Inch turrets would have made a difference, especially early in the air very likely would have. I dont believe the Argentines were flying them here station ship in the 1982.. The Islands if Hermes and the troops were taken on board HMS Spey ( Cdr weaknesses! Could she have been armed with the challenges of deployment using an array of services... Scrapped Ark Royal took until 1983 Sector ) parted company with the ships troops had embarked, was... Rnn ) and HMS Escapade ( Cdr Sea Harrier naval interceptor than the Sea Harrier ashore day..., with wholesale disposal of assets only to discover they hms rhyl falklands needed just a few years.! Ocean Wanderer ( hms rhyl falklands, 7178 GRT, built 1942 ), HMS Rother (.... Ship was built by Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after Welsh!
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